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Chullin

Daf 103b

מִכְּלָלוֹ. אֲבָל אֵבָר, דְּלָא הוּתַּר מִכְּלָלוֹ – לָא.

to its general prohibition, as the fat of an undomesticated animal is permitted. But with regard to a limb from a living animal, where there are no permitted circumstances to its general prohibition, the prohibition of consuming a tereifa does not take effect.

TOSAFOT

חלקו מבחוץ פירש בקונטרס כזית אבר מן החי חלקו לשנים קודם שיתננו לתוך פיו ואכל זה לבדו ואח"כ אכל חציו השני משמע דאם נתן שני החלקים בפיו ובלען בבת אחת חייב לכ"ע ואין נראה דאם כן מאי קשיא ליה לריש לקיש היכי משכחת לה דמיחייב וכי אינו יכול לבלוע כזית בבת אחת והא אמרינן בפרק בתרא דיומא (דף פ.) דבית הבליעה מחזיק כביצת תרנגולת דגדולה יותר מגרוגרת כדמוכח בפרק חלון (עירובין דף פ:) דאיכא כמה גרוגרות בסעודה של עירוב וגרוגרת גדולה יותר מכזית כדמוכח בפרק המצניע (שבת דף צא.) ואמרי' בפ' אמרו לו (כריתות דף יד.) דאין בית הבליעה מחזיק יותר משני זיתים משמע דשני זיתים מחזיק ועוד דכי היכי דאע"פ שחלקו מבחוץ והניחם בבת אחת לתוך פיו מיחייב לר' יוחנן דאזיל בתר אכילת פיו לפי שנהנה גרונו כזית בבת אחת ה"נ אפילו בלען בזה אחר זה יתחייב לריש לקיש דאזיל בתר אכילת מעיו כיון שיש כזית בבת אחת במעיו קודם שיתעכל דאינו ממהר להתעכל כדמוכח בסמוך ונראה לפרש דחלקו מבחוץ פטור ואפילו אכלו בבת אחת דבעינן שיהא מחובר בפיו ויהיה עליו שם אבר משום דהכא חדוש הוא כדפירש בקונט' דבעלמא לא מיחייב אגידין ועצמות והכא מיחייב ואין לך בו אלא חידושו אבל חלקו בפנים חייב דדרך הוא שנחלק בפיו בשעת לעיסה וריש לקיש פטר ואפי' חלקו בפנים ולכך דוחק הש"ס אליביה היכי משכחת לה שיתחייב בדרך אכילה ומשני בגרומיתא זעירתא דאין אדם לועסו אלא בולעו ומיהו לרבי אלעזר ודאי חייב חלקו מבחוץ דאפילו אכל זה אחר זה מיחייב:

כִּי אֲתָא רַב דִּימִי אֲמַר, בְּעָא מִינֵּיהּ רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ מֵרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: חִלְּקוֹ מִבַּחוּץ מַהוּ? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: פָּטוּר.

§ The Gemara continues its discussion of the prohibition against eating a limb from a living animal. When Rav Dimi came from Eretz Yisrael to Babylonia, he said: Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish inquired of Rabbi Yoḥanan: If one took from a living animal a limb that was an olive-bulk and divided it into two pieces when it was outside his mouth and ate each piece separately, what is the halakha ? said to him: He is exempt.

מִבִּפְנִים מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: חַיָּיב.

Reish Lakish then asked Rabbi Yoḥanan: If he placed an olive-bulk of a limb from a living animal inside his mouth and then divided it and swallowed the two parts separately, what is the halakha ? said to him: He is liable to receive lashes.

כִּי אֲתָא רָבִין אֲמַר, חִלְּקוֹ מִבַּחוּץ – פָּטוּר. מִבִּפְנִים – רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: חַיָּיב, וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר: פָּטוּר.

When Ravin came from Eretz Yisrael to Babylonia he said an alternative version of this discussion. If one took from a living animal a limb that was an olive-bulk and divided it into two pieces when it was outside his mouth, and he then ate each piece separately, he is exempt. If he divided the limb into two parts inside his mouth, Rabbi Yoḥanan says that he is liable, and Reish Lakish says that he is exempt.

רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר חַיָּיב – הֲרֵי נֶהֱנָה גְּרוֹנוֹ בְּכַזַּיִת. וְרֵישׁ לָקִישׁ אָמַר פָּטוּר – אֲכִילָה בְּמֵעָיו בָּעֵינַן, וְלֵיכָּא!

Rabbi Yoḥanan says he is liable because his throat derives pleasure from an olive-bulk of a limb from a living animal. And Reish Lakish says that he is exempt because in order to be liable we require an act of eating that contains the requisite amount, i.e., an olive-bulk, when it enters his stomach, and in this case there is not a full olive-bulk that enters his stomach at one time.

אֶלָּא, לְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ, הֵיכִי מַשְׁכַּחַת לָהּ דִּמְחַיַּיב? אֲמַר רַב כָּהֲנָא: בִּגְרוֹמִיתָא זְעֵירְתָא.

The Gemara asks: According to the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan it is clear how one can be liable for eating an olive-bulk of a limb from a living animal. But according to Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish, how can you find a case where one will be liable for eating a limb from a living animal, since the food is generally broken up before he swallows it? Rav Kahana said: One would be liable in a case where he eats a small bone that contains an olive-bulk of meat, bone and sinew all together, and that he can swallow whole.

וְרַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר אָמַר: אֲפִילּוּ חִלְּקוֹ מִבַּחוּץ – נַמִי חַיָּיב, מְחוּסַּר קְרִיבָה, לָאו כִּמְחוּסַּר מַעֲשֶׂה דָּמֵי.

As quoted above, Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish agree that if one divides a limb from a living animal before placing it in his mouth, he is not liable for eating it. The Gemara adds: But Rabbi Elazar says: Even if one divided the limb outside his mouth he is liable. This is because the fact that the two pieces are lacking in proximity to each other as they are placed in one’s mouth is not comparable to lacking an action, i.e., it is not comparable to a case where he ate only half an olive-bulk. Since he ate an entire olive-bulk, he is liable.

אָמַר רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ: כַּזַּיִת שֶׁאָמְרוּ – חוּץ מִשֶּׁל בֵּין הַשִּׁינַּיִם. וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר: אַף עִם בֵּין הַשִּׁינַּיִם.

§ The Gemara cites another dispute between Rabbi Yoḥanan and Reish Lakish pertaining to the measure of an olive-bulk with regard to prohibitions involving eating. Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish says: The olive-bulk of which the Sages spoke with regard to prohibitions involving eating is measured by the food one actually swallows, aside from the food that remains stuck between the teeth. And Rabbi Yoḥanan says that it includes even the food that remains stuck between the teeth.

אָמַר רַב פַּפָּא: בְּשֶׁל בֵּין שִׁינַּיִם – דְּכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא לָא פְּלִיגִי, כִּי פְּלִיגִי – בֵּין הַחֲנִיכַיִים. מָר סָבַר – הֲרֵי נֶהֱנָה גְּרוֹנוֹ בְּכַזַּיִת, וּמָר סָבַר – אֲכִילָה בְּמֵעָיו בָּעֵינַן.

In explanation of this dispute, Rav Pappa says: With regard to food that remains stuck between the teeth, everyone agrees that it is not included in measuring an olive-bulk that would render one liable to receive lashes. When they disagree it is with regard to food that remains on the palate, which one tastes but does not swallow. One Sage, Rabbi Yoḥanan, holds that since his throat derives pleasure from an olive-bulk, i.e., he tastes the full olive-bulk, he is liable. And one Sage, Reish Lakish, holds that in order to be liable, we require an act of eating that contains the requisite amount, i.e., an olive-bulk, when it enters his stomach.

אָמַר רַבִּי אַסִי אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: אָכַל חֲצִי זַיִת וֶהֱקִיאוֹ, וְחָזַר וְאָכַל חֲצִי זַיִת אַחֵר – חַיָּיב. מַאי טַעֲמָא? הֲרֵי נֶהֱנָה גְּרוֹנוֹ בְּכַזַּיִת.

§ The Gemara quotes another related ruling of Rabbi Yoḥanan: Rabbi Asi says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: If one ate half an olive-bulk of a forbidden food and vomited it, and then ate another half an olive-bulk, he is liable. What is the reason? It is because his throat derives pleasure from an olive-bulk of the forbidden food, even though the full olive-bulk did not actually enter his stomach.

בְּעָא רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר מֵרַבִּי אַסִי: אָכַל חֲצִי זַיִת וֶהֱקִיאוֹ, וְחָזַר וַאֲכָלוֹ, מַהוּ? מַאי קָא מִיבָּעֲיָא לֵיהּ? אִי הָוֵי עִיכּוּל אִי לָא הָוֵי עִיכּוּל, וְתִיבָּעֵי לֵיהּ כַּזַּיִת!

Rabbi Elazar raised a dilemma before Rabbi Asi: If one ate half an olive-bulk of forbidden food and vomited it, and then ate it again, what is the halakha ? The Gemara clarifies: What is the dilemma he is raising? If it is about whether the half-olive-bulk that he ate and vomited up is considered to have been digested, in which case it is no longer considered food, or whether it is not considered to have been digested, let him raise the dilemma with regard to an entire olive-bulk. If one eats an entire olive-bulk and vomits it and then eats it again, if the food is considered not to have been digested the first time, he is liable to be flogged twice.

אֶלָּא, אִי בָּתַר גְּרוֹנוֹ אָזְלִינַן אִי בָּתַר מֵעָיו אָזְלִינַן. וְתִפְשׁוֹט לֵיהּ מִדְּרַבִּי אַסִי!

Rather, his dilemma must be about whether we follow the throat or whether we follow the stomach in measuring how much forbidden food one has swallowed. That being the case, let him resolve the dilemma from that which Rabbi Asi said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said, which indicates that we follow the throat.

רַבִּי אַסִי גְּמָרֵיהּ אִיעֲקַר לֵיהּ, וַאֲתָא רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר לְאַדְכּוּרֵיהּ, וְהָכִי קָאָמַר לֵיהּ: לָמָּה לִי חֲצִי זַיִת אַחֵר, לֵימָא מָר בְּדִידֵיהּ, דְּאִיכָּא לְמִשְׁמַע מִינָּהּ תַּרְתֵּי, שָׁמְעִינַן מִינָּהּ – דְּלָא הָוֵי עִיכּוּל, וְשָׁמְעִינַן מִינָּהּ – דַּהֲרֵי נֶהֱנָה גְּרוֹנוֹ בְּכַזַּיִת!

The Gemara explains that Rabbi Elazar knew the answer to his question, but Rabbi Asi forgot the statement that he had learned from Rabbi Yoḥanan, and Rabbi Elazar came to remind him of what he had known previously. And this is what Rabbi Elazar was saying to him: Why do I need the case where he swallows another half an olive-bulk? Let the Master teach this ruling in a case where he swallows the same half-olive-bulk he had swallowed previously and vomited, as two principles can be derived from the ruling in that case: We can learn from it that the food was not considered to have been digested the first time he swallowed it, and we can learn from it that since his throat derives pleasure from a full olive-bulk, he is liable.

אִישְׁתִּיק וְלָא אֲמַר לֵיהּ וְלָא מִידֵי, אֲמַר לֵיהּ: מוֹפֵת הַדּוֹר, לָא זִימְנִין סַגִּיאִין אָמְרַתְּ קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן, וַאֲמַר לָךְ: הֲרֵי נֶהֱנָה גְּרוֹנוֹ בְּכַזַּיִת. הדרן עלך גיד הנשה

Rabbi Asi was silent and did not say anything. Rabbi Elazar said to him: Wonder of the generation, did you not say this case many times before Rabbi Yoḥanan, and he said to you: This person is liable because his throat derives pleasure from a full olive-bulk?

SUMMARY

The main topic of this chapter was a single mitzva: The prohibition of eating the sciatic nerve, with its definition and details. The Gemara’s conclusion was that this mitzva applies at all times and in all places. It also applies equally to consecrated animals and to non-consecrated animals, and to the sciatic nerve of both the right and left thighs. The prohibition applies only with regard to animals, not to birds. The Gemara defined precisely where in the leg the forbidden nerve is located. It also ruled that in addition to removing the nerve itself, the surrounding fats must also be removed. Even though there were different customs, the conclusion is that the entire nerve must be removed, as well as all extensions of it, even though they may not be technically forbidden. The Gemara also discussed various membranes that must be removed from animals. Some are removed because they contain forbidden fats and others because they contain large amounts of blood. It also became common practice over the generations to remove other small sinews and membranes that are considered disgusting. The only prohibition concerning the sciatic nerve is the prohibition of eating it. Although the Sages said that the sciatic nerve is tough and generally considered inedible, one who eats it is liable to receive lashes. Apropos the discussion about the sciatic nerve, and particularly the case of a thigh that is cooked with the sciatic nerve still inside, the Gemara discussed the principles of nullification of forbidden food. The sciatic nerve is among the forbidden foods that, when cooked with permitted food, render the entire mixture forbidden if they impart taste to it. This can be discerned by tasting the mixture, but since the mixture may be forbidden, it can be given to a gentile expert to taste. Nevertheless, since there are some foods whose taste is difficult to discern in a mixture, in practice it is customary to assume that if there is less than sixty times as much permitted food as there is forbidden food, the mixture is forbidden. It is permitted to give a gentile an animal leg with the forbidden sciatic nerve still inside, as there is no concern that he will subsequently come to sell it to a Jew who would eat it without removing the nerve. This applies even in a locale where it is permitted for a Jew to purchase slaughtered meat from a gentile. The reason is that since the thigh is whole, it is obvious that the nerve has not been removed and the purchaser would know not to eat it. This chapter included a discussion of whether a prohibition takes effect where another prohibition already exists. Can another prohibition apply to a food that is already prohibited, or does the second prohibition have no effect? As this is a general topic with many applications, it is discussed in other tractates as well. In this chapter, a distinction was drawn between different types of prohibitions. Although in most cases a prohibition does not take effect where another already exists, some prohibitions do take effect on food that is already forbidden if they add extra stringencies or increase the degree of prohibition on the food. These were the main concepts discussed in this chapter. As in all chapters of the Talmud there were also many tangential discussions.

INTRO

The choicest first fruits of your land you shall bring into the house of the Lord your God. You shall not cook a kid in its mother’s milk. (Exodus 23:19)

The choicest first fruits of your land you shall bring into the house of the Lord your God. You shall not cook a kid in its mother’s milk. (Exodus 34:26)

You shall not eat of any animal carcass; you may give it to the resident alien who is within your gates, that he may eat it; or you may sell it to a foreigner; for you are a sacred people to the Lord your God. You shall not cook a kid in its mother’s milk. (Deuteronomy 14:21)

The Torah proscribes cooking meat in milk on three separate occasions. In all three instances, the prohibition is formulated in terms of cooking a kid in its mother’s milk. The halakhic tradition passed down from generation to generation as a halakha transmitted to Moses from Sinai is that these verses are all referring to a general prohibition against cooking meat and milk together. The Torah’s repetition of the injunction three times teaches that not only is the act of cooking the two substances together prohibited, but also that if one did so, the cooked dish is then prohibited for both consumption and benefit. The wording of the prohibition gives rise to several questions with regard to the scope of the prohibition. One can ask whether the Torah is referring to the meat of all animals, including undomesticated animals and birds, and perhaps even fish, or whether it is referring only to the meat of domesticated animals like kids, the animal mentioned in the verse. It must also be determined whether only milk itself is included in the prohibition or if derivative milk products are included as well. A unique aspect of the prohibition against cooking meat in milk is that each ingredient is permitted for consumption by itself; only when they are cooked together are they prohibited. Consequently, even placing the two substances side by side is considered problematic, as it could lead to transgression. This chapter discusses the extent to which meat must be kept separate from milk in order to prevent people from unwittingly violating the prohibition. The chapter discusses other significant issues relating to this prohibition as well. What is the definition of cooking in this context? What is the requisite ratio between the two substances that renders them prohibited? In which cases are mixtures of meat and milk considered forbidden? Another issue that requires clarification is whether it is permissible to consume animal udders, which contain both meat and milk, and what is the correct manner of preparing them. In addition, the chapter deals with whether it is permissible and how to properly curdle milk, since it was typically curdled by using congealed milk from a nursing animal’s stomach or even skin of the stomach itself as a coagulant. These issues constitute the main topics of this chapter.

מתני׳ כָּל הַבָּשָׂר אָסוּר לְבַשֵּׁל בְּחָלָב – חוּץ מִבְּשַׂר דָּגִים וַחֲגָבִים. וְאָסוּר לְהַעֲלוֹת עִם הַגְּבִינָה עַל הַשֻּׁלְחָן – חוּץ מִבְּשַׂר דָּגִים וַחֲגָבִים.

It is prohibited to cook any meat of domesticated and undomesticated animals and birds in milk, except for the meat of fish and grasshoppers, whose halakhic status is not that of meat. And likewise, the Sages issued a decree that it is prohibited to place any meat together with milk products, e.g., cheese, on one table. The reason for this prohibition is that one might come to eat them after they absorb substances from each other. This prohibition applies to all types of meat, except for the meat of fish and grasshoppers.

TOSAFOT

מתני' כל הבשר אסור לבשל בחלב תימה דלא תני בארץ ובחו"ל בפני הבית ושלא בפני הבית בחולין ובמוקדשין כמו בהנך פירקין ובתוספתא תני להו ושמא מאי דשייר במתניתין פירש בברייתא ואשמעינן דחייל איסור בשר בחלב אאיסור מוקדשין ורשב"ם פי' דאיצטריך משום חו"ל דס"ד דאינו נוהג בח"ל משום דאיתקש לבכורים (שמות כג) בחד קרא ראשית בכורי אדמתך לא תבשל גדי בחלב אמו ולפירושו ניחא הא דאמר בפ' ראשית הגז (לקמן חולין דף קלו.) דארצך דבכורים אתא למעוטי חו"ל דאע"ג דהיא מצוה התלויה בארץ איצטריך משום דאיתקיש לבשר בחלב:

ואסור להעלות עם הגבינה על השלחן חוץ מבשר דגים וחגבים האי חוץ לא איצטריך דאפילו לבשל שרי אלא אגב רישא נקטיה: